Bridgett Burrick Brown (00:06.904) Hi everybody, welcome back. This is Beyond Beauty Project, the podcast and I am your host Bridget Burrick Brown. Today I am here with Jen Messina. She is a registered dietitian and certified intuitive eating counselor. She's based in North Vancouver. She is passionate about holistic health and practices through the lens of, sorry, let me start that again. She is passionate about, I'm gonna start the whole thing again, sorry. Jenn Messina (00:37.111) Totally. Jenn Messina (00:42.07) Health at every side. Is that what you were looking at? Bridgett Burrick Brown (00:44.462) What'd say? Yeah, yeah, lens of health at every size. I just wanna make sure I say that right. Okay. Jen is a registered dietician and certified intuitive eating counselor based in North Vancouver. She is passionate about holistic health and practices through the lens of health at every size, food neutrality and intuitive eating. In her private practice, she works with individuals and families to support children to have a healthy relationship with food and their bodies. She also works with teachers and schools to help foster body acceptance, diversity, and neutrality. Thank you so much for being here. I have been following you for a while now on Instagram and I love all of the content that you put out there. and share with all of us and I'm excited to dive into it today. So thank you for being here. Jenn Messina (01:41.472) I'm so excited to be here. think, you know, many of us have our own kind of concerns around our body or food and we're looking for ways to both support ourselves but also help prevent, you know, intergenerational trauma around this kind of stuff. So really looking forward to digging into it and kind of talking about some real strategies to make things a little bit more right for our kids. Bridgett Burrick Brown (01:59.095) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (02:08.49) Yeah, I love that. I love that you led with that too, because my daughter was such a big influence in why I started my project. You know, I watched my mom go through her own body image struggles. I had my own and then I had a little girl sort of at the height of mine and she was around three and I thought I need to heal myself so I don't pass this on to her. Let's start. Jenn Messina (02:28.652) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (02:38.126) I just want to hear a little bit of why you do what you do. Jenn Messina (02:43.426) Yeah, so I mean, I've been a dietitian for a long time. Like think it's around like 17 years now. And my journey has kind of come full circle. So I started, you know, my, my, when I initially started as a dietitian, I practiced from a very weight central viewpoint. So I actually, we learn a lot about, you know, the health, weight paradigm, you know, linking, you know, if someone is in a larger body, that means they're overweight, we should be teaching, sorry that they're not healthy, that we should be teaching them to lose weight. So a lot of my education in the early 2000s as reflective of the time was not very diverse or inclusive to other kind of viewpoints. similar to like what your story is, like when I had my daughter, which was nine years ago, I started really thinking about Bridgett Burrick Brown (03:29.88) Yeah. Jenn Messina (03:39.996) my approach to practice, how I was supporting clients. And the other thing I was noticing is like, I kept seeing like the same thing, like weight lost, then regain, weight lost and regain. you know, and I knew it wasn't like a willpower thing. Like I had clients that had, you know, the best kind of willpower and strategies and all that. So I knew there was more to the picture. And so with that, I started listening to Chrissy Harrison's podcast, Food Psych. Bridgett Burrick Brown (03:51.894) Hmm. Jenn Messina (04:08.306) and started learning what intuitive eating and then once you kind of see what's behind the curtain of Oz like you cannot unsee it and so was like devouring like everything to do with like diet culture intuitive eating health at every size listening to all the podcasts and and i remember like I started my private practice after my son was born. So that was in 20, he was born in 2017, but my, we have in Canada, we have like extra long maternity leave. So I had an 18 month maternity leave with him in China. I know. Bridgett Burrick Brown (04:39.432) my gosh, that's amazing. Jenn Messina (04:42.378) returned to work after the 18 months and I thought, you know what, I want to start my own private practice. This is before kind of everything shut down and a colleague of mine actually asked me to fill in for her private practice when she was going on maternity leave. And I said to her, know, I love everything you do, I really, can't, I can't talk about weight loss anymore. Like I feel like I'm at this crossroads where I think a lot of us are where once you learn the science of weight loss and kind of the yo-yo effect of it and all the negative effects it has like mentally and physically and the regain rates and all that, you just like can't do it anymore. You just can't be part of the problem. Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:24.864) Yeah. Jenn Messina (05:27.168) And so yeah, after that, she's like, yeah, no problem. I'm kind of with you. And then, you know, she went back to her private practice and I decided to start my, like, I decided to just kind of go out on my own and really started focusing on how to support kids. So again, like doing all the learning I could with all the resources out there. because I really, really didn't want to, like my mom dieted, my grandma dieted. Like it was like my grandma would have like a stack of coffee crisps next to the weight or the Slim Vast powder, right? So like, quote unquote good or quote unquote bad. And so, and I was like, this cannot keep going. Like I cannot pass this on to my daughter. And you know, Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:57.922) Hmm, yeah. Jenn Messina (06:08.456) She is going to go through like some bumpy periods like my own relationship with my body became pretty fraught around puberty when I gained weight rapidly and so I was like I know this is likely like our genetics and so this is going to happen to her and I can't have the same thing passed down. I think like, you know, for myself, it has been a lot of unlearning over the past 10 years and learning from my clients and learning from, you know, lots of different weight inclusive practitioners and diverse practitioners on how to support people around having a healthier relationship with food in our body. And so that's kind of like my why story. But yeah, I think like there's so many layers to it, but I think knowing that even someone like myself Bridgett Burrick Brown (06:46.69) Yeah. Jenn Messina (06:53.732) coming from a very like weight-centric like education like you can change how you feel and how you talk about food in your body like at any point right so it's just because like this is the way you've been taught doesn't mean you can't take a step and pivot in a different direction Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:11.374) Do you feel like you ever had a moment where you struggled with disordered eating or was it more that you thought the goal was like skinny? Jenn Messina (07:24.002) What's interesting is I would say, like if you're a dietitian, the chances of you having a disordered relationship with food is very high, at least at some point. So I never had an eating, it's crazy because like if you're obsessed with food, like I am, like you, like, so very, I very much had a disorder. I never had an eating disorder, but I definitely had a disorder relationship with food in university. Like I would say like when I was doing my dietetics practicum, like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:33.632) Yeah, I could see that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:48.066) Yeah. Jenn Messina (07:53.504) You know, I remember hearing this, like one of our professors said, you know, the difference of eating one apple a day is the difference in gaining weight or not in the year. And I was, I just absorbed that and I thought, wow, I really have to watch every bite. really cannot. Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:05.806) What? Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:13.71) Wow. Jenn Messina (08:16.446) like I never counted things because I don't think there was like the internet was just in its baby form like the social media like we were one of the first kind of years to get Facebook but so we I didn't do like the counting or tracking but I was definitely doing like Atkins which is like pivoting now to like you know keto and I was doing like bringing in I remember like bringing to university everyone would be like Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:32.504) Totally same, Atkins. Jenn Messina (08:41.822) getting like pizza from like Pire squared at UBC and like I had like my Tupperware of like lukewarm cottage cheese that I was like trying to convince myself that was good and so definitely like disordered in my thoughts around food and that you know kind of I initially I think I got into dietetics or I wanted to be in the dietetics field because I had like a period of time like people in my family are very thin. Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:58.264) Yeah. Jenn Messina (09:10.946) And so like I'll preference this by saying like I'm in a straight-sized body. So I do have You know, I'm sure you probably talked about like thin privilege and that sort of thing Better than anyone it just means that like my genetic set point is in a straight-sized body. So, you know Exactly, yeah Bridgett Burrick Brown (09:19.68) Yeah, of course, yes. Bridgett Burrick Brown (09:27.106) You have privilege because of it. That's what that means. Yep. Jenn Messina (09:30.656) Yeah, so like an unearned privilege based on your genetics. but I even in my kind of straight sized body, my family is even thinner than me. So I was like, you know, even I felt bigger even though I'm, you know, still straight sized, but they were like very, very thin genetically too, right? Bridgett Burrick Brown (09:48.897) Yeah. Jenn Messina (09:49.952) I always felt like different than other like even growing up. so like seeing my mom diet, even though she was thin, like that always set, like kind of set me up, I think in a negative way to around my body. So, I think I actually entered the dietetics field because I wanted to make sure I could like crack the code and air quotes for those who can't see me on weight loss. Like I wanted to always continue to like either be thin or get even thinner. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:01.966) Yeah. Jenn Messina (10:17.186) you know, as a 19 year old, because I went into, like I started my university degree when I was 18, right? So I went in right after high school. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:17.644) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:26.038) Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I have to circle back for one second with the Atkins and all that because I was laughing and I wasn't laughing at you, but I relate so much. mean, first of all, I was always constipated when I was doing that damn Atkins diet. Like, did anyone poop when they did that? I remember all my friends eating like pizza and I would make like an egg white omelet. Like I was always like, my God. Jenn Messina (10:45.868) Probably not, nope. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:56.086) I was the same, think, I never had like a full eating disorder, but like lots of just disordered eating. it was also, I mean, when I was doing Atkins, it was like early 2000s-ish. And I just feel like there were so many fad diets there then that it's like you would do the South Beach and then you'd do Atkins and then you would try something, you know, it was like, like a library to pick from, Jenn Messina (11:20.578) It was always on the cover, right? Like what was their secret? Like their secret was like, they do like this diet and be like, well, I better try that too. Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:24.237) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:29.356) Yeah, you do good content about that. I always love your, like the covers and stuff. Okay, I love how you believe that food is more than just fuel. You say it's culture, connection and joy. I love the joy part. Can you share some examples of how food connects us beyond just nourishing our bodies? And maybe some like practical tips about how we can start to like, Jenn Messina (11:35.453) crazy. Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:58.73) shift our mindset from this like food guilt to food pleasure. Jenn Messina (12:04.994) So after when I think about like kind of this topic I think of a request my kids had last summer Asking me to take them for Slurpees and like the dietitian in me like shudders, right? I'm like it's in my brain. I'm like all sugar like there's nothing like even a chocolate bar like at least has like something to it more than just like sugar and ice so, you know Bridgett Burrick Brown (12:21.238) Yes. Sucker! Bridgett Burrick Brown (12:30.862) Totally. Jenn Messina (12:31.796) I cringe in my soul, like, it's hard to break, right? And so I remember reflecting on that. And like, my instinct was to say, like, we don't, like, no, like we, you know, we have our desserts regularly, like we, but then I also reflected back on my own experience with food and with slurpees in particular. And on those hot days, how they just hit the spot in terms of like the temperature, the texture. the sweetness, pleasure aspect of it. And so I think when we think about that example, like food doesn't always have to be the nutrients that it provides, right? food can be like hitting the spot in terms of all those like sensory aspects that bring us joy and pleasure and like we can reflect back to our own childhood and times when we weren't thinking about our weight or shape and being like unburdened by the thoughts of eating those types of foods because it met that like sensory desire. So I think when we think about all the different aspects like food is used in celebration all the time right so Bridgett Burrick Brown (13:36.333) Yeah. Jenn Messina (13:36.51) It's celebration for us, it's tradition, connects us to our culture and heritage. Like my family background, like we have like an English background, so like roast beef dinner with like Yorkshire puddings and roasted potatoes and all that kind of stuff like hits like just the spot in terms of like the nostalgia piece and like, you know, the cultural piece. So I think... When we're quick to like jump to the no, I think we often want to just like reflect on like, why is it that we, you know, are saying no to something? Like even if it doesn't have like nutrients, food doesn't always have to provide us nutrients. Food is like, of course we want to eat nutrients. I'm a dietician. Like I think we should eat variety. but it doesn't, every bite that we eat doesn't have to be like nutrient dense. Like it can be joy and pleasure. Bridgett Burrick Brown (14:12.696) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (14:23.726) Hmmmm Jenn Messina (14:26.358) And that's okay. Like it's okay to eat for the sensory or pleasure aspect of food. And I think the more that we kind of notice those thoughts. So like one of your questions was like on practicality, like I think the first thing in any type of like change is to notice the thoughts. It's like, Ooh, that's the thought that's coming up. And so then I want to dig into that. Like, where did I learn that like Slurpees were bad? Like, why are they bad? Like, is that true? Is that like real? Or is it just literally like Bridgett Burrick Brown (14:28.108) Yeah. Jenn Messina (14:55.202) It's sugar. Sugar is, you know, a component of things that we eat. It gives us energy. It gives us joy. Like, so I have to almost say to my kids, like, you know, we can't live off candy, but we also can't live off kale, right? Like we have to have variety of foods in order to grow and thrive. But some of those foods are just going to be for fun and that's OK. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:10.071) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:17.038) Mm. And I love how you brought up the sort of like traditions that you might have in your family. I mean, sitting around the dinner table makes me have so many amazing memories. And I loved getting Slurpees, by the way, at 7-Eleven. I was just thinking, I'm gonna bring my daughter to get a Slurpee. It's, yeah, it's like it connects you with memories and to people. And I love that. That's really cool. Yeah, your youth, yeah, memories. Jenn Messina (15:32.534) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (15:36.308) Yeah. Jenn Messina (15:43.104) for you, friends. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:46.958) So unfortunately, diet culture is everywhere. Just to kind of expand on what you were just saying, but I think a lot of people do really feel like really stuck in this like guilt and restriction. What is sort of, do you think the first step in kind of getting unstuck or to stop restricting would be to notice your thoughts? but also like how do we quiet the noise of all this diet culture? Jenn Messina (16:20.852) Mm-hmm. So I think like the first thing would be to recognize all the different forms of diet culture So when I go to schools like we look at like the media that we talk about what is media like it's everything right? It's like books. It's you YouTube its magazines its textbooks it so first we just start like naming the sources of media so You know, I think like if you're wanting to like take a step back from the, you know, die culture in general, I want you just to first recognize all the different places that it shows up. It's everywhere. Like once you, I kind of think about die culture is like the water that we're swimming in. It's like, it's everywhere, but it's invisible because it's so prevalent. But once you start recognizing like the sources of it, like I'll even go to like a thrift store and I'll like see like Bridgett Burrick Brown (16:51.137) Yep. Jenn Messina (17:06.934) these giant muscular male dolls, right? Or like the costumes for Halloween for boys are all these like very buff, like we can't even let our six year old have the body that they have. Like they're being told that in order to be super, they have to have like. Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:18.7) Yeah. Jenn Messina (17:21.632) these certain appearances. So I think it's starting to recognize how early it starts, where it comes from, the books that we read, like Daddy Pig on Peppa Pig, all the different kind of places it shows up. then noticing, we inundate our, we can't protect our kids from all this stuff. It's literally everywhere, but we can notice it. And so, Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:24.301) wow. Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:45.357) Yeah. Jenn Messina (17:48.564) like if I see things that are like I might be like say I need to pop in to like you know the drugstore and grab something and there's you know front and center there's like the beauty section and there's a picture of you know white thin young woman with perfect skin and so I'll just like You don't even say to my kids like, like what are they selling? Like what is that product selling? And I'll say, like I think I just saw a skin cream because like children can't discern like advertisements versus truth. So, you know, I'll even say, and what do you think the messaging is? Like what, like, what do you think that that cream is sending? And so we'll talk about how it's saying that if you buy this cream, you'll look like this girl, right? And so if you, you know, so it's, so we start noticing, I think, and pointing it out and be Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:18.87) Yeah. Jenn Messina (18:36.456) curious on the messaging and like does that align with our values? Like do we think people who have acne are less valuable or less kind or less good you know that sort of thing? And so I think noticing it is the first step recognizing where you're buying into it you know like Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:41.73) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:49.142) Yeah. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:57.186) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (18:59.154) even like have like, you know, we buy into it in all different ways, right? Like, and even if we don't like even dyeing our hair or like whatever, that doesn't mean I'm not going to dye my hair. Right? But it's meaning like, I know that that's a beauty work that I'm doing. And if my daughter were to say to me, why do you dye your hair? Like, I'm not going to say like, well, because the patriarchy like values women who are youthful, and I'm not going to go into that, but I will like her. Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:07.064) Totally. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:24.748) Yes. Yes. Jenn Messina (19:26.05) You know, I will talk about how this is beauty work and how, you know, not you don't have to do it. People don't have to do it, but we all still have to. like with regards to diet culture, we also have to like exist in the world. So we can like divest in certain things. Like maybe we don't buy like the plant, the protocols, the potion, the juice cleanses, the supplements. Like we don't buy like any of that. We don't subscribe to Noom. We, you know, block the ads. We do all what we can, but it doesn't mean that we're going to like completely divest ourselves from every aspect of Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:53.741) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:01.632) Absolutely. Jenn Messina (20:02.684) culture and I think we do what we can but we all are also like needing to exist in this world as well and doing in a way that you know feels safe for us and that's gonna vary like for safety like you know sometimes like people will ask me you know can I and this is like a whole can worms like can I be on ozemp I can still eat intuitively right and so like I think about like people are so quick to like tell others like that's terrible for you and this and that but like person has to exist in this world in the easiest way that they can and so like it's not my place to say what your individual medical decision is for you. I can talk about things like in general like problems with like you know ads and stuff like that but I'm not going to ever tell someone what they should do individually from like a medical perspective if that makes sense. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:35.458) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:55.63) Yeah, also it just makes me think of like the judgment that goes into what people do with beauty or with how they eat. There's just so much judgment around it and like maybe we try to like take that away, you know? It sounds like you don't do that and I love that, that you approach your clients like that because especially as women we have enough pressure. Jenn Messina (21:21.634) Thank Bridgett Burrick Brown (21:22.274) to do all the things, be all the ways and just the fact that like they can come to you and it sounds like you take a little bit of that away. I totally agree with you. I feel like this diet culture or this beauty ideal messaging is something I always say it's like when it comes to the media in particular, it's like, it's almost... as if you have to educate your children like you would about sex and drugs. And I know that sounds crazy, but it really is everywhere. And so it's like that awareness, the little like point outs that you do. Like I'll do that a lot when we're watching movies. You said something really cool though. And I can't remember exactly what you said now, but you said something like diet culture is like swimming in the waters of what did you say? Can you repeat that? Cause that was so cool. It was like silent, but everywhere. Jenn Messina (21:55.756) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (22:18.754) So to me, I feel like diet culture is the water we're all swimming in. Like we are all in this, like I often visualize diet culture, like often as my presentations, like I'll have like a pool of people like in the water because when you're swimming, like you know it's all around you, but you can't see it, anything, right? Like you just see it's clear, right? But so I think of diet culture in the same way, like it's invisible, but it's everywhere. It's like. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:23.712) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:38.614) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:45.334) And is it because it's just we see it so much that it almost has become invisible? Yeah, wild. Jenn Messina (22:51.338) Yeah, and so I think so like it is everywhere and so I think unless you're like consciously noticing and pointing it out like to your kids even to yourself to be like, like that was like that's diet culture like you know, unless you're noticing it like I'll even see it like, you know on t-shirts and things like that like everywhere right and so Bridgett Burrick Brown (23:01.825) Yep. Jenn Messina (23:15.082) Unless you like are looking for it, you almost like don't even see it anymore because it's we're just so inundated with these messages of these beauty ideals. Bridgett Burrick Brown (23:22.798) Mm-hmm. It's so true. Do you think that this skinny ideal is going to come back? This heroine chic? Do think it's coming back big time? Are you seeing it already? Jenn Messina (23:35.913) I mean, I work with primarily like women who are between the ages, I would say like 30 to 50. So the ideal in like the media versus like what the women that I'm working with like trying to strive for, I don't know if it's going to come back. Like I feel like lot of us can reflect on how damaging that was, those images to our own self-esteem. I see my niece is 16 and even though this messaging is coming up about this thin ideal is getting even thinner, I see her and her friends having more body acceptance. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:04.076) Yeah. Jenn Messina (24:22.946) body of sevens of diversity, right? So like, and like I'll see her and her friends and some of them are in larger bodies, they're wearing crop tops. And I think to myself, like, I would never, and I like, I would never wear a crop top when I had thought that I was too big in your clothes. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:23.63) Go ahead. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:30.701) Yep. Jenn Messina (24:38.922) because I'm so self-conscious. Whereas for them, they're like, I'm gonna wear whatever the hell I wanna wear. Like, I'm gonna wear this, this makes me feel good. Like, regardless of like what society says is ideal. So I don't know if the newest generation is going to buy in to the messaging that like there's only one body. I'm almost seeing it as like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:44.288) Yeah. Good. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:57.294) Hmm Jenn Messina (25:00.338) rebellion against like the system which I often play up in schools too like we'll talk about you know when you look in the mirror and you're unhappy with how you look like who profits off your body dissatisfaction who makes money for you not liking your hair your teeth your skin your stomach whatever like somebody usually it's a you know white man Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:13.614) Mmm. Jenn Messina (25:25.202) makes money off you being unhappy. And so, you know, they really like love that messaging and really like pick up on it and like want to almost like push back against like the system of oppression. Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:37.376) I love this. This is amazing. Tell me more. Keep going. Sorry. just so I so good. Jenn Messina (25:41.418) I mean, I just see it as like, they are not, I don't know what it is with the newest generation. Maybe it's because like, they've also been raised like, yes, like when we look at like hashtags on like, weight loss is still like trending on TikTok is like the number one hashtag, but body positivity is like number two. So I think they are like when maybe you and I grew up, we didn't see body diversity in any shape or form. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:02.53) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:09.438) Yeah. Jenn Messina (26:10.782) So like we are now seeing like a push towards diversity in terms of like, you know, everything like, you know, neurodivergent and, you know, gender fluidity and, you know, being more accepting of like different sized people and shapes and, and colors and all that kind of stuff, sexuality. So I just feel like this generation is much more accepting of difference than Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:20.558) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:37.218) Yeah. Jenn Messina (26:38.098) I don't know exactly their origin. I'm assuming it's because they've been seeing more variety than we did, but that's just kind of, I don't have any like evidence behind that. That's just my own perception. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:42.615) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:47.892) No, I think you nailed it. It's like they, I think even if this thin ideal tries to really get in there, I feel like hopefully they have seen enough different kinds of bodies that they, and they're accepting enough different kinds of bodies and know that we can all exist in different kinds of bodies that that will give them a little bit of shielding from that. Yeah. That's really cool. Yep. We're hoping, we're hoping. Jenn Messina (27:17.463) See you later. Bridgett Burrick Brown (27:24.783) So, okay, let's see, sorry. I feel like we already did that one. Bridgett Burrick Brown (27:34.487) Okay, so. You say that health doesn't have a look or a size, which is perfect to go into this now. So how can we start really getting people to believe that thinness doesn't equate health? Jenn Messina (27:56.508) Mm-hmm. And that's like the million dollar question, right? It's like, so, I mean, I think the work that you and I are doing is helping and pushing back against that narrative that health equals a certain size. And so, you know, I'll often reflect like when I do like presentations on... times when we've noticed somebody has lost weight and it wasn't healthy. Like I'll talk about my own experience with like postpartum depression and anxiety. Like after my first child, I lost all of the baby weight immediately. And that was not because I was doing anything other than having crippling anxiety that I was up all night, couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, was like almost hospitalized because I was so anxious, right? And so luckily my family doctor stepped in and was like, need like to see somebody. I got some amazing support from the women's hospital nearby. But, you know, I'll reflect on a time, like I'll reflect on like times when people have, you know, lost weight and they're praised for it. And in fact, that's been a time when they were like, had one person and they had like a kidney transplant or another person's like chemotherapy. It's like, so I think that we have to think about health. So often talk about like health is I'll kind of show a bit of a visual on like we're Bridgett Burrick Brown (29:06.988) Yeah. Yeah. Jenn Messina (29:16.302) Old health is diet and exercise, right? And so then we'll start talking about like, what are all the other areas of health that affect how we feel in our body? know, emotional health, spiritual health, you know, we'll talk about environment, we'll talk about stress, sleep, like all these other things. you know, we'll kind of start blowing that out. Like, okay, like if it's not just diet and exercise, it's all these other things, then can we achieve health without changing our body shape and size? Now, you know, intuitive eating dieticians Bridgett Burrick Brown (29:31.531) Yeah. Jenn Messina (29:46.264) are not against weight loss. So we're not like saying, if you change, like we're all about behavior, like weight is not a behavior, right? So like if you improve health behaviors, like for example, say you're like, I had one client during the pandemic and they were... Before the pandemic, they were eating out every single day at like Cactus Club or Earl's or all these like kind of high energy places, eating out every single day, not moving their body, not like they were so stressed, like not getting sleep. And then with the pandemic, surprisingly working from home, now they had to cook for themselves, learn to like meal prep, learn to, they actually took breaks. They actually got up from their desk and went for like a walk. like, you know, when we change behavior, so this person ended up, did, their weight did change. And so You know, I wasn't like I'm not against someone if their behavior changes Like and weight changes sometimes that does happen with intuitive eating, right? Sometimes weight goes up if you're eating in more of a restrictive way But weight is not like the the goal like weight is like something it's just like a you know It gives us some information, but it doesn't tell us about Health like you can eat like two Snickers bars a day diet and lose weight and that doesn't mean you're healthy, right? So Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:00.523) Yeah. Jenn Messina (31:00.868) Right? So like how can we improve health with, you know, not intentionally trying to change weight? So a lot of times I would all look at is like, let's have a look at like some of these other aspects of health. So obviously I talk about food, but also like, are you sleeping? Like, are you in your stress? Like, do you go outside ever and like get fresh air? Like, you know, so we look at all these other kind of areas of health and then people will see that like once they start Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:17.046) Yeah. Jenn Messina (31:30.876) not just like cluing into like what is my body telling me around food but also like how can I take care of myself in a holistic way and not just you know if you're eating you know I don't know intermittent fasting you're sacrificing maybe you're not able to go to like your family dinners then maybe you're not able to have your grandma's cake or maybe you're not allowed to you're not able you're sacrificing so many other aspects of health or Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:50.69) Yeah. Jenn Messina (31:55.638) these regimented rules, like that's unhealthy in my opinion. know, forcing the emotional health for like, you know, your dietary restrictions, right? So I think there's so many other things to consider when we look at health and that, you know, weight is not a behavior. So that's not something that we can, you know, Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:59.853) No. Jenn Messina (32:17.577) we can change behaviors, but sometimes we change behaviors and weight doesn't change, but that doesn't mean that that person is not improving their overall health when we look at, you know, blood work or when we look at blood pressure or stress or things like that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:31.018) Yeah, I love that you point that out to them. Like what are all the other places that we could look at that means that reflects health or being unhealthy, right? I love all the work you're doing with kids. That's really cool. It really starts there, right? Gosh. So I also love how you bring such a personalized approach to your clients. Jenn Messina (32:39.105) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (32:47.616) Thank you. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:59.502) Tell us just a little bit about how embracing individuality when it comes to ourselves and our bodies really helps us break free from the pressures to like, you know, constantly being told what to eat, how to look, how to be, all the things. Jenn Messina (33:19.174) Mm-hmm. So I think like each person is gonna have like a slightly different approach because they're so like one of the first questions I asked my clients is tell me about your relationship with food growing up and like Bridgett Burrick Brown (33:29.916) Mmm. Jenn Messina (33:31.178) That question alone, like I probably have like a 30 to 50 % cry rate on that because a lot of us have a fraught relationship. So maybe it was food scarcity or maybe your parent was like overly healthy and never allowed you to have certain things. So or maybe it's the fact that maybe they were too permissive and you just had no like guidance. And so you were just kind of eating out of the pantry all the time or whatever. So I think like tell me about your relationship with food growing up, like really. like helps open up the door to like, how do you relate to food? Like were you told that you had to clean your plate? Were you told that children in Africa are starving and you're wasteful? Like, you know, where did that come from? So once people start realizing like where some of their patterns kind of maybe originate from, I think that also helps guide where we go. So, you know, some people, because they are not used to having hunger cues at certain times, sometimes we do set up a bit more of a structured plan. them. Like if someone tells me like, well I haven't ever eaten breakfast and but they're you we're noticing that they're eating you know at 1 p.m and then they can they're eating non-stop until the early evening and into the evening you know we might look at like setting them up with more foundational strategies in the morning. So a combination of seeing like where they came from, where was a time where they felt good and like you know we'll often talk about Bridgett Burrick Brown (34:52.205) Hmm. Jenn Messina (35:01.954) Like was there a time when you were like listening to your body run fullness and hunger sometimes like to be honest though sometimes I hear the answer is no. Like I have the last time I listened to my body was when I was eight. Right. Like they've been for 30 years. It's really you know challenging to like a lot of my clients and I'll tell them like Bridgett Burrick Brown (35:16.012) Yeah. wow. Jenn Messina (35:26.198) You're an expert in dieting. You don't need me to tell you. And a dietician, nobody needs to tell you that an apple is healthier than eating a bag of chips. This is obvious, right? But it's more like the psychology around eating. Why are we doing the things that we are doing? What sets us up for that? Bridgett Burrick Brown (35:37.378) Yeah. Jenn Messina (35:44.726) you know, both from like a history perspective, but also like how we're setting ourselves up in the day. So I think really like tuning into like that individual person and figuring out like what will work for them, whether sometimes they need some guidance on more structure. Sometimes we look at food rules and see like, okay, what is like, I know you are saying that you want like, you know, listen to your body, but like, do you have times that you're limiting yourself eating? Do you have like rules around carbs? Like I can only have one carb at my meal. Do you have- you know rules around never having these foods in the house or they fear foods right so like sometimes we have to dig into like some of that as well to figure out like what's still hanging on from diet culture basically Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:15.342) Mmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:27.192) Mm-hmm. Yeah. And do you feel like when you approach each person individually, it's kind of a combo of like what their body needs physically, but also what they need mentally. Yeah. So you kind of. Jenn Messina (36:43.936) Yeah, definitely. It's definitely like the mental and emotional piece is like and like if somebody has like a lot of fear foods You know, i'm not going to be like let's have like every fear food in the house all at once So like if someone is like I had someone the other day and she told me she only eats 10 foods, right? So She's so worried and afraid of like gaining weight and changing size and that she's like really restricted herself down i'm not going be like Let's like get every food that you've ever feared in your house, right? So we work more slowly than that and see like Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:57.176) Yep. Bridgett Burrick Brown (37:12.779) Yeah. Jenn Messina (37:15.524) like, you know, what can we like, because that would feel bad from an emotional perspective, right? If you're feeling like you're overeating, right? So, you know, how can we make slow changes to maybe we look at like, if your fear food is say, bread, maybe we look at like having a piece of toast at your friend's house when you go there for dinner just to like, so it's a safe place that you feel like you don't have like a huge loaf of bread at your house, but maybe you have something out with a friend or you go to the coffee shop and have something there or something like that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (37:21.387) Yeah. Jenn Messina (37:45.426) So. Bridgett Burrick Brown (37:45.772) Yeah. Jenn Messina (37:46.7) Certainly I think we need to look at physical but also mental and emotional and how food affects us because healing your relationship with food is a lifelong process. I think for many of us, and you'll probably even reflect, sometimes thoughts come up in your head, like, I've already had too many of X, Y, or Z, right? So even though we're so far in this journey, I don't think there's a place, because we live in this culture, that we're ever not continuing to reflect Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:00.408) Absolutely. Jenn Messina (38:16.644) and heal on that stuff. Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:18.816) Absolutely, I agree. I think it's a lifelong journey. It gets easier and it gets better, I think as you, but I think it also ebbs and flows a little bit. Like I'll be really good and then I'll be really triggered and I'm like, whoa, what happened? And then I work through that. Okay, we touched on this a little bit earlier with how you help navigate. Jenn Messina (38:33.622) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:44.526) your children to understand what's true in the media or diet culture. How else do you just sort of support them around body image? And is there some common mistakes or, I don't want to call them mistakes, but things maybe that parents do that they think is helpful but is actually causing some damage? Jenn Messina (39:08.724) Mm-hmm. So I love this question because I think that I mean we're all learning so like if I say something and you're like turn I've been doing that like I want you to know that this is a journey and like not to like beat yourself up about it and You know like even like I just so you know like even as young like reflecting back like my daughter's nine now But when she was three Bridgett Burrick Brown (39:21.998) Yeah. Jenn Messina (39:30.498) You know, I'm just gonna throw it out there that like the pediatric guidelines are pretty strict on sugar for kids And so for my own kid, I wasn't giving her much access to sweets when she was three And then one day I found her in the closet eating toothpaste, right? And so I think we need to reflect that like we all are doing the best we can with information that we have and then when we know better we do better, right? So now, you know like Bridgett Burrick Brown (39:53.868) Yep, absolutely. Jenn Messina (39:56.444) we have my daughter doesn't do that anymore of course and has like a much different relationship with sweets but we're all in this learning journey so I think in terms of body image you know one of the first things that I kind of reinforce is body diversity so I think is like we see diversity everywhere in nature like so I'll point out like dogs and trees and mushrooms and flowers and we'll talk about like isn't that like cool how there's like little tiny dogs and there's big dogs and there's you know Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:02.349) Yeah. Jenn Messina (40:24.554) like all different types of trees, they're small, big, wide, you know, and just normalizing that. So I think one thing you guys can do is just point that out and like, isn't that cool? Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:30.349) Yeah, cool. Jenn Messina (40:34.602) And also like if a child notices, children are also like, they're early programmed to notice differences. So if a child says something like, wow, that person is bald or like that person is fat or that person is, you know, whatever it is they notice rather than being like, shh, like we don't talk about that. Like that's terrible. Like, you know, I think we need to like, you know, we can say to them, you know, it's totally normal for you to notice differences. You know, it might hurt that person's feelings if they hear you saying some of this out loud, but you can always come to me. and we can talk about it. None of your questions are wrong. You have great questions here and I'm always happy to answer them. But kind of just come tell mom if you have a question rather than yell it out. So noticing differences is okay. And so I think the first thing would be normalizing the differences, noticing differences and celebrating them and talking about how... Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:15.704) Yep. Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:24.503) Yeah. Jenn Messina (41:26.666) Isn't it awesome how, you know, strong that person is or like if you're noticing like, you know, you're watching the Olympics and like you can kind of highlight like differences that you're noticing and focusing on the function of that person rather than their body appearance. So I think that's kind of a first step, like having a look around your house too and seeing like, do you have any diverse books? Like, do you have any diverse art? Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:41.804) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (41:53.026) So like in my office, I have diverse bodies. I remember one time my son, he saw one of the pictures, it's like a stitching of a woman in a larger body. And he said, mommy, that woman looks like a snowman. And so like the instinct is to be like, don't talk about, know, like, you know, in a negative way, but I'm like, that's curious. You know, she does have like actually, you know, roles on her body and that's normal. And some bodies do have that. like, mommy has some roles in her body and that's normal too. And like, so I think we can approach things a little differently, like from a place of like, children don't know that like, that is quote unquote bad until we teach that to them. Bridgett Burrick Brown (42:20.652) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (42:32.631) Yep. Jenn Messina (42:33.696) Right? Like just like short or tall, like fat is a neutral descriptor. Like they'll talk about like a fat piece of toast, right? Like that's not a bad thing, right? That's just like an observation, right? So I think that's one thing to kind of notice. Also, like when you're chatting with your own kids, like... Bridgett Burrick Brown (42:43.918) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (42:53.634) It's really important, I think, to talk about their, not to talk about their bodies in terms of appearance as well. So like, I really try and avoid talking about like either my body, definitely not in a negative way. Like if I, even if I have those thoughts of like, you know, I don't love how this is fitting, like it's hitting me in all the wrong spots. Like, I'm not going to talk negatively about my own body because I know that that will become my daughter's inner narrative about her own. Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:20.578) Yep. Jenn Messina (43:21.322) my son the same, right? So if we're constantly talking negatively about ourselves, that becomes the voice that they hear in their own heads, right? So that's kind of like, the other thing is when I talk about bodies, we always talk about function. So if I hear one of my kids talking, like I remember like years ago, one of my kids used the word fat in like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:29.154) Yeah. Jenn Messina (43:44.448) in a kind of a negative way. Like they're using it as an insult towards somebody else. And so, you know, rather than again, like I just said, like, why are you using fat as a, you know, why would you like try to use it as an insult? Like I just pointed out, like people have fat on their bodies. Some people have more fat than others. Like that's not bad to be fat. Like, and so that kind of is like, like, okay, that's not really rather than, you know, saying like Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:02.539) Yeah. Hmm. Jenn Messina (44:10.07) don't call your sister fat. Like, you know, she's not fat. She's beautiful, right? Like what does that message kind of reinforce? Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:17.42) wow, yeah. Mm-hmm, absolutely. Jenn Messina (44:19.776) Yeah, think the other piece, you know, one of the like kind of quote unquote mistakes or kind of ways that we go wrong is to maybe talk about weight gain in a bad way. like children, find specifically in that pre puberty time will often come to me worried about their child has gained weight rapidly. And they're like 10, 11, 12, worried about their child's weight gain. So one of the errors I see is like parents, like the kid will say, my belly is getting big. I'm worried about this. then the parents say, Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:44.494) Mm. Jenn Messina (44:57.796) We better do something about that then like maybe it's because you're eating too much sweets or maybe it's because you watch too much iPad or whatever rather than saying You know if a child says that to you rather reflecting like yeah You know what bodies do change like sometimes you're have more fat on your belly sometimes less like your body is going through a really important time right now in puberty Where you are gonna have weight changes and there's nothing wrong like kids need to hear us say that we think There's nothing wrong with our body. Even if we are worried they need us to reinforce to Bridgett Burrick Brown (45:12.504) Hmm. Jenn Messina (45:27.716) them that like their body is doing exactly what it needs to do in order to grow in a way that's right for them. Bridgett Burrick Brown (45:33.826) I love that. I really, really love that. Cause I think I talk a lot about. doing that with our own bodies to model that. But yeah, they need to feel safe from our guidance that their body is doing exactly what it's supposed to. Yeah, I have a couple of friends right now who have talked to me about their daughters gaining a little bit of weight and getting, they're getting ready for puberty. And it's interesting, because they're also, they're like, they're just getting a little belly. Jenn Messina (45:45.068) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (45:49.046) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (45:53.568) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:11.308) and I'm explaining to them, you know, bodies change and body, her body's doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. But it is the first instinct. I have one friend in particular thinking about her first instinct is like, you know, eat the broccoli instead of the cookies. And, you know, we just have to, and I'm like, no, don't do that. Jenn Messina (46:27.692) Totally. Jenn Messina (46:31.554) Yeah, like, we analyze, like... I mean, a girl in particular, in order for her to get her period, her body fat needs to double, right? little girls in particular gain weight in their abdomen before it's redistributed to their breasts and their hips. So like, I think we need to know that kind of puberty information so that we can reinforce that like, yeah, that's a little bit more fat on your body. That's okay. Like, you know, my daughter is so neutral about like, she handed me a pair of jeans. She's like, yeah, these don't fit my waist anymore. She's like, yeah, I need a new pair. I'm like, okay. Yeah, like you do. you know, imagine having that kind Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:52.333) Yeah. Jenn Messina (47:03.118) of neutrality around ourselves. Like, she's just like, and I'll just be like, yeah, you're growing, like, you know, you're gonna need new clothes. Like, that's the way it is, like, just so matter of fact, versus, god, you're, can't believe that we just bought that six months ago. Like, that worry makes them then worry, like, there's something wrong with me, right? When in fact, like, their body isn't, there's nothing wrong with them. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:12.844) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:17.879) Yeah. Jenn Messina (47:25.25) So I think if more of us had that message when we were 10, 11, nine, 10, 11, 12, like that age, like we would have felt less worried about our body changes at that kind of difficult time. And that's actually like a high significant, we see a significant risk factor for developing an eating disorder and puberty, right? So I think that's good for us to know so that we can help neutralize some of those expectations that like their body is gonna stay like one way. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:52.941) Mm-hmm. Jenn Messina (47:53.92) as they grow and it's not, right? It's gonna change, same with our bodies, like as we go through different phases of life, like our body's going to change as well and that's normal. And so again, talking about like, if I have a pair of pants that don't fit me, rather than being like, beat myself up about it, I might just be like, okay, like I a new pair of pants, like that's way it is, like these ones don't fit and modeling that for them. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:58.958) yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (48:12.768) Yeah. I love neutralizing it all. Even the going back to the comment like, you know, don't call your sister fat. She's beautiful. It's like, when did fat become an insult, right? So like, if we could neutralize all of these things, I love that approach. Because I think we talk about that a good amount around food, but we're not talking about that as much with like, Jenn Messina (48:26.53) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (48:41.42) these sort of, guess, descriptive words about our bodies and yeah, that's really cool. I love that. Okay, what else? Is there anything else we should chat about before we finish up? What did I miss? Jenn Messina (48:53.826) I mean, the last piece I would say is the connection with schools. So I think, I work a lot with schools. So I think there's the most influence in a child's life, usually in elementary years and below is their teachers and schools and you, right? Like you're always parents are the original influencer. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:00.61) Ooh, yeah. Jenn Messina (49:18.004) What happens at your home and what happens at school are very important to your child in terms of how they look at food, how they look at their bodies and that sort of thing. So I think like your teacher is also navigating diet culture as well. So I think a final thought would be if you're, you know, doing as much as you can at home to support a neutral relationship with food and body, but they're coming home with worksheets like categorized food and good and bad and like, you know, sugar causes diet. and things like that. Like there's a lot of like outdated stuff in our school systems or like in the US, like, you know, having like BMI report cards and you know, things like that. So I think like you as a parent can work with your teacher to come up with something that feels safe for you. immediately I would say like there's certain things that are, I would say, dangerous and that I will absolutely like not stand for. One of those is weeing my child and talking about BMI. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:50.766) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:58.509) Yeah. Jenn Messina (50:17.554) So if you have an option, if your school does that, you can opt out. Just say we're not doing that. It's like, that's not something we're doing. I'm not worried about your weight. So like, I don't know why the school would even be concerned about it. Like, you know, they're not your doctor. The other thing that I think is like actually harmful would be tracking food assignments. And like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (50:29.965) Yep. Jenn Messina (50:38.316) calorie counting, using my fitness pal to track exercise, things like that. those are very harmful activities, I would say, that can be associated with, you know, disordered thoughts around food and body. So as a parent, like if you find out about those, you can always like let the teacher know you're opting out. You can let them know why, ask for a different assignment that you're feeling more comfortable with. But then there's this gray area of things that happen at school that are like not like... you know, like there things like categorizing food in terms of good and bad or demonizing certain foods and things like that. So, I mean, it depends on your relationship with your teacher, I say, and your school. Your teacher is like has the best intentions. I think like leading from a place of like your teacher hat, like the reason why they're a teacher is because they love children and They wanna help and support our kids. But they're also swimming through diet culture too, right? So I think with compassion, if there's something like, or like I see sometimes like in the younger grades, like you have to eat your healthy food before your unhealthy food, right? Like you have to eat your broccoli before you eat your packaged food or whatever it is, right? Bridgett Burrick Brown (51:36.846) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (51:47.662) Hmm. Jenn Messina (51:48.962) If you're seeing stuff like that happen, I would just get curious, know, emails are not usually the best form of communication there. would say like setting an email so that you have a few minutes at the beginning or end of class, like just have a quick discussion or do you have time for a quick phone call to kind of share what your concerns are. If it's something like, for example, like eating foods in certain ways or like the good bad assignments and stuff like that and come at it from a place of kindness, right? Teachers are like very open. worked and they're not dietitians and so they're often like handed down materials from previous teachers that might have dated back like 20 years right so Bridgett Burrick Brown (52:27.542) Yeah. Jenn Messina (52:28.522) So like start with that and you know, you can start and just have a discussion like hey like, you know, I'm really trying to support my child around like feeling neutral around foods and not feeling bad about eating any types of foods because you know when I you know, when I talk about foods, we say that all foods give us something. So I noticed that you know, they're letting me know in class are being asked to eat their healthy food first before their unhealthy food. And you know, I'm just wondering like, you know, is our like what's happening with the lunch monitor? like is that you, is that, know, sometimes it's like a grade seven student, right? So like getting curious about like that situation. And then you can always like say, talk about like where you're coming from in your perspective. Bridgett Burrick Brown (53:02.665) Yeah. Jenn Messina (53:10.39) and why you think that they maybe shouldn't have that kind of language around food. But if the teacher's insistent on like, this is the policy in our classroom, this is what I'm doing, then you can always like opt your child out of certain things like, or have like a lunchbox card that says like, I know it's being packed and like let my child eat whatever food they want and whatever order, right? So we do as much as we can. But then I think there's also a place for like saying like I've had Bridgett Burrick Brown (53:30.414) Mmm. Jenn Messina (53:37.672) You know parents come to me and say like well, it's you know halloween and i'm really annoyed that like our school has like a no candy policy and this sort of thing so I think there's also a part of us that needs to recognize that Sometimes schools are doing things for reasons that we don't know about like the no candy policy or like the no treats that like you know Easter whatever it is at the easter party You don't know like what's going on and that so again, approach it with curiosity. Like, I'm curious about this, like, no candy policy. Like, what's going on with that? Because when we investigate, we might find out, like, I've had situations where teachers tell me, like, I had to instill a no candy policy because I had one kid and all they would bring is like 30 candies for lunch. And then they would do it out to like their favorite people. And then it would create like chaos in the classroom. Or like there was garbage everywhere. And the janitor was staying an hour later every day because there was a lot going on. So I think investigate the why. Bridgett Burrick Brown (54:18.314) Bridgett Burrick Brown (54:21.772) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (54:27.158) Yeah. Jenn Messina (54:31.092) and then look and see what's going to work best for your child, but assuming that they're coming from a place of care and compassion. be my other thought around schools. Bridgett Burrick Brown (54:42.2) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (54:46.594) What about weighing our children at the doctors? Jenn Messina (54:50.796) So weighing a child is neutral until we make it otherwise, right? So again, like, just like you're checking, like I have a little wall on the, we all do probably, right? Where we get our, we do our children's height. So height is also neutral. So weighing in doctor's office, I mean, what I would suggest there is like, you know, especially if your child is either on the very small side or very large size, you know. Bridgett Burrick Brown (55:02.711) Yeah. Jenn Messina (55:13.202) they're going to get messaging around their body is not good, right? And so from potentially from the doctor, even though like the pediatric associations say like, do not talk about weight in front of kids. So if you're concerned about that, you could write a note or like step inside with your doctor a few minutes before the child comes in and just say like, like oftentimes like my doctor already knows, but like, you know, if my child is weighed, that's fine, but we don't discuss weight in front of the kids. Like if you Bridgett Burrick Brown (55:39.978) Yeah, like that. Yeah, my, my daughter had lost a little bit of weight. She had, I think she had just had like COVID and pneumonia. And we had went to the doctor, got weighed and she started talking and I went right up to her and I was like, I'm like, no, and she got it right away. But I was like, we're not talking about I don't want to plant any seeds. Yeah. So it's not Jenn Messina (56:04.161) Yes. Bridgett Burrick Brown (56:06.626) So the scale becomes a negative thing or weight becomes a negative thing when we make it a negative thing. Yep. It's just a tool. It's neutral. We're neutralizing everything. I love this. Jenn Messina (56:12.77) It's just a tool, right? It's like anything. So if we make it a big deal, then it's a big deal, right? So like, if the doctor's like, you're in the red zone for BMI, like that's gonna cause an issue, right? But if the doctor is like, okay, like they your weight down and then you can always say to the doctor, like, if you wanna talk about weight, like I'm happy to talk about afterwards, but like, we're not talking about weight for the kid. Bridgett Burrick Brown (56:29.114) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (56:38.188) Yeah, I emailed after I was like, totally get you were like coming from a good place. But like, I just don't want to plant any seeds. And I don't talk about that stuff in front of my daughter. Tell everybody how they can work with you, how they can get in touch with you. Tell us a little bit more about the work you're doing at schools because I love that you're doing that. Jenn Messina (56:58.242) So I mean schools have really found me which is kind of cool like they have like looked at the work that I'm doing with other schools and they're like I want that messaging like at my school so I mean like I work like one-on-one with clients only in the province of BC so unfortunately I don't my dietitians license is only in Canada Bridgett Burrick Brown (57:01.838) Cool. Jenn Messina (57:17.57) But I do see lots of like groups wherever you are in the world so like if you are interested in having like I do a lot of like teachers presentations pack presentations Please reach out. I'm on Instagram at Jenna dietitian or Jen Messina comm so I'm sure that's all gonna be linked below But yeah, feel free to reach out to me. Look at all my DMS. It takes a long time, but I do read them all and and I think you know If you're interested in having the other thing you could also do is like if you wanted to work with a dietitian with a similar philosophy that I do, there is an intuitive eating directory that you can look at. So you can go to their website and find who's a certified intuitive eating counselor, who's also a dietitian. Or you can look for a pediatric dietitian that has similar philosophies as me. So follows like the division of responsibility in feeding, or we also call it responsive feeding practices, which is considered like the most evidence-based with regards to feeding kids. So find someone that like is, you know, aligned with your values. And then know that like typically like a dietitian wouldn't see a child until like, I don't see any kids individually because again, we don't want them to feel like there's something wrong with them until they get older. So typically like my cutoff is like say like maybe 13, 14 when they become more independent and are... Bridgett Burrick Brown (58:24.833) Yeah. Jenn Messina (58:42.846) making their own food, cooking their own food, buying their own food. But really, I work with parents to support their kids. kids shouldn't be, in my opinion, unless there's extending circumstances, we don't want children having diet advice until they're older, because it's very nuanced. So find someone who will support you as the parent to communicate the messages to the kids. Bridgett Burrick Brown (59:02.242) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (59:09.996) Yep, I love that. Aw, thank you so much. Jenn Messina (59:13.824) Yeah, you're welcome. It's great to connect. think we've, you know, followed each other for a while online and to kind of catch up and see what, you know, has been supporting people like in your community, in my community, that sort of thing. Bridgett Burrick Brown (59:18.464) I know. Bridgett Burrick Brown (59:27.424) Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. I will talk to you soon. Jenn Messina (59:32.948) Okay, take care. Bye. Bridgett Burrick Brown (59:34.862) Bye, you can stay on.