Bridgett Burrick Brown (00:01.122) Hi everybody, welcome back. I am your host, Bridget Burrick Brown. And today I am here with Jesse Cody. Thank you so much for being here with me today. Jesse and I met through a really nice keynote group that we're both in and I heard some of his story and I just wanted to have you on because I think it's so important and I've been really wanting to talk about. men's mental health a little bit more on our platform. We dig in a lot about women's mental health, but I just think while mental health is universal, there's probably some things that we can dig into today that could help some men out there or people supporting men. And then also just anybody dealing with mental health struggles or issues. have, I know, really good personal experiences. Jesse Cody (00:49.968) anybody dealing with mental health struggles or... Bridgett Burrick Brown (00:56.728) good, but you have personal experiences and really good insights and, you know, recovery stories that you can share with us. So I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you so much. Welcome. okay. So we're going to just dig right in. You know, while you aren't a licensed therapist, Jesse Cody (00:58.87) really good insight. Jesse Cody (01:10.742) Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. Jesse Cody (01:17.705) Alright. Bridgett Burrick Brown (01:21.996) Your lived experience really gives you a powerful voice in the mental health space. You've been really open about coping with childhood trauma, depression, narcissistic traits, and suicidal ideation. So I'd love to just start today by, you know, sharing some of your story with us and ultimately what led you from nightlife to the wilderness. Jesse Cody (01:50.024) Absolutely. Yeah. so I'm born and raised Cambridge, Massachusetts, spent most of my life in the Boston area. I did about five and a half years in New York city as well. running bars and a nightclub in Times Square. Majority of my life, adult life was, was working in an industry that is high paced, pretty toxic. if you let it be, you know, it's, there's ways to definitely avoid it for sure. But for most people like yourself who is Bridgett Burrick Brown (02:04.046) Mmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (02:12.407) Yeah. Jesse Cody (02:17.622) who are struggling with insecurities and depression and stuff, seem to lean into the toxic side of it. And this was my life for so long. And let me be honest with you, before I became an adult and had to kind of find a career, I was a young man who actually through high school, I was a seven time state champion in track and field, cross country. I ended up going to Providence College on a full scholarship for running. And then really after that, when I didn't have like, deep protection from a coach, from family, from my brother, from friends who kind of could keep an eye on me. And while I was learning at a young age, self-destruction mode really kind of came into play right away. And I started self-sabotaging within six months of going to Providence College, I flunked out of school and lost my scholarship. And that from there was kind of this trajectory down of really kind of letting the issues that I was facing get the best of me. Bridgett Burrick Brown (03:06.633) yeah. Jesse Cody (03:15.918) you know, like you said, early on, noticed a lot in terms of insecurity. I'm always worried that I let my family down. even when I was winning races, those didn't affect me as much as what the losses and what I felt like I was doing, how I was letting my parents down or letting my team down or my coach down. I could really look back at those things and remember how those things played, such an impact on my mental health compared to the successes that I had in life. but you're young. Bridgett Burrick Brown (03:25.282) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (03:44.11) Mmm. Jesse Cody (03:45.43) You're young and you're not you're not aware of how the mind works and you're certainly not as a young man aware of that if you notice things Speaking up and asking for help as an option You just kind of think that everybody's going through that and it's the sessions in my case I would imagine most my guy friends are going through this and just keep it to yourself and and be tough and plow forward and that was you know, that's the seed that was planted and I'll be honest with you like I didn't come from a Bridgett Burrick Brown (04:05.08) Yeah. Jesse Cody (04:14.536) a family with a dad that was super hard on me like that. I came from a very loving family. My parents were hippies, so they kind of had that loving, nurturing factor to them. But still, think society got the best of me and always kind of thought, if you're a young man, if you're an adult, these are things that are just part of your life and you have to learn how to navigate them. And that just wasn't the case with me for a long time. And as I said, I moved into the restaurant industry eventually, and that was a place that really wasn't good for me. Throughout being in that industry, you know, to kind of combat my depression and my insecurities, I started exhibiting narcissistic behavior, specifically in relationships with women. You know, as a man that ran bars and nightclubs, I had the ability to kind of take advantage of staff, which I did. And I kind of I'm that picture of what you you you Bridgett Burrick Brown (04:46.594) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:05.902) Mm. Jesse Cody (05:08.862) we hear stories about, right? Whether it's men, whether it's men in the restaurant industry, I was a lot of those things. But the strange thing for me was I could see this inner battle with it. I hated it all about myself. I hated when I lashed out. I hated when I treated someone who cared about me deeply, when I treated them poorly. Those things would really affect me almost in the same sense of me when I was younger and I felt like... Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:23.477) Hmm. Jesse Cody (05:36.148) That feeling that I got when I felt like I was letting people down that stayed with me like that never disappeared and I know that's that's really the difference between being a true narcissist and understanding narcissistic behavior because if I was a true narcissist, I wouldn't have had that inner battle that just would have been me. Right. And so Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:40.942) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (05:49.024) Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and I would have to think and I want you to continue, but I would have to think that, you know, if you did something and then you felt badly, that sort of like deep into the insecurity. Right? There's probably, yeah, because that wasn't that wasn't who you are inside. Jesse Cody (06:08.444) Mm-hmm very much so. Yep Jesse Cody (06:16.468) Yeah, it wasn't. And, you know, we could get we get really deep with this because my therapist is who's been fantastic has really showed me how to kind of really get back in touch with my younger self. And I think that was always this kind of young little version of myself in there that was just looking for for answers that could help, you know, but wasn't willing to my older my my adult version wasn't willing to literally Bridgett Burrick Brown (06:19.202) or it isn't. Bridgett Burrick Brown (06:39.022) Yeah. Jesse Cody (06:45.802) reach out for help and whether that was to get into therapy or to talk to my family or to like lean into friends. just, I was looking for ways to avoid all the things that I was struggling with and I was lying to people if people had noticed even in the smaller ways what's wrong, I'd be able to navigate that. We become very good actors when we're dealing with these type of things and. I always say I should have won several Oscars for the way that I was able to kind of keep things from so many people in my life that really cared for me and would have been there for me if I was able to open up about that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:09.73) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:22.09) Yeah. So do you think that this not asking for help or a little bit, I would think you're sort of keeping a bit of some secrets, right? Like, don't let them find out that I'm depressed or I'm feeling insecure. Maybe you're spiraling down. Do you think the not reaching out was Jesse Cody (07:37.056) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (07:51.278) Do you think that came from your upbringing or do you think that was society and how you felt a man should behave? Sorry, that was very chunky, but I'm trying to. Jesse Cody (07:58.134) you felt a man. Jesse Cody (08:04.278) No, no, but I definitely know what you're getting at. I wouldn't say it was my upbringing, definitely not my upbringing. But there is there is a part to my upbringing that I think plays a significant role in this. And let's just I'll get to that in a second. But I think more so society was telling me that as well. You know what I mean? I guess when like Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:23.085) Yep. Jesse Cody (08:29.578) When you struggle with something, especially at a young age, and you're just going through the day to day life with friends and going to school and playing basketball and baseball, you're around all your friends and none of you are talking about this stuff. Why would I ever be the one to bring it up? Right? So again, my thoughts are, you know, I guess this is just part of life, right? And if, and if no one's talking about it, then I'm not gonna like, why would I talk about it? Right? It's an uncomfortable conversation, whether Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:46.83) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:52.366) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (08:57.984) Hmm. Jesse Cody (08:59.722) to have like, and to kind of try to open up to your folks. I mean, that's you think a million different reactions. And if you were to say, need help, I've I'm sad a lot. I'm scared, you know. And obviously, as I got older and all these all these things that I was going through started really translating into, well, if this is who you are. And I used to think I can't change, but the problem was I wasn't asking to get any help to see if I could change. I just ultimately thought this is your truest version. You don't belong here. You're not worthy of actually having a life on this planet because all this is ever going to be is whether it's pain for yourself or pain that you inflict on others. that really kind of was a leading thought for me for many years in my life up until I turned 40 years old. Bridgett Burrick Brown (09:34.638) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (09:56.326) Mm-hmm. So in that probably trigger those suicide thoughts, right? Yeah. Jesse Cody (10:02.886) Absolutely. You know, I, I can, I can talk about the times that I really was close to taking my life that usually they were after a significant fight with a partner and really hurting that person. And then I'd go back to where I lived. And I'd get home and I would just sit on my couch and cry and think to myself, like, why am I like this? Like, like, why am I saying these kinds of things to a person who cares about me and Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:14.894) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:22.638) Hmm. Jesse Cody (10:27.154) and accusing and doing like creating this thing that's not even a reality and putting this on someone who just wants to care and love me. And what I'm doing is I'm ripping that apart. And that that would really like, I would be enraged with myself for being this way. And I'd be home and I usually, you know, cry myself to sleep or I try to find actual courage to take my life. Bridgett Burrick Brown (10:51.8) So in those moments when you are very mean to a partner, what have you since then figured out you were actually trying to get? Jesse Cody (10:54.902) . Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:03.448) What was like, what were you trying to fill? What were you? Jesse Cody (11:04.096) Well, I mean, I could tell you 100%. What I was trying to fill is I my belief system in a relationship was eventually this person will will hurt me. And so Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:18.307) Yeah. Jesse Cody (11:20.564) Why don't we stop that in his tracks and do the hurting first? So I'm always prepping that person. I know you're going to hurt me. I know you're going to cheat on me. Why are you talking to this person? Who are you texting? You know, so in that, to me was my way of kind of protecting myself, which is just such a unrealistic reality. Yeah. Very common. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And so bridge, go. Sorry, go ahead. Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:24.62) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (11:40.686) but it's very common, And did that come from, no, you go ahead. don't want to, I want you to tell your story. Jesse Cody (11:51.638) So I just kind of want to go back because you asked me about family upbringing in society. And you're the first person I'm actually opening up to about this. And I've made this decision recently and I've addressed things with my family recently that I did have significant childhood trauma for most of my young, young, young childhood life. And so this is something that I am working, working on now and something that I've been I finally opened up to my whole entire family and some of my closest friends about. so the reason, there's a lot of reasons I'm doing this one. It just, felt like time, even though for many years I thought I would keep it to myself, take it to my grave and that this was something I would live with because that in itself, when you, when you talk about trauma, I can't help but think about how that affects people in my life who care and love me specifically, my parents, right? It's like, I don't want them to have to take a slice of my trauma with me, especially, you know, they're older now. My mom is 80, my dad's 85. And it's like, it's a tough thing to really to address to confront and address with your family. But I will say my family, these conversations have even though there's been a lot of pain, there's going to be a lot of process for us. They have been immensely beautiful. And you kind of say when we were talking earlier, like, you know, I thought to myself, I could never say I can never open up to my family about these things. The first thing both my mom and dad said is we wish we wish you knew when you were younger. A lot of things could have been different for you, you know, and it's like, yeah, I can see that now. It took me a long time to get there. And it's certainly I needed to have these conversations to truly, truly understand that. But, know, I'm coming off of this trip in Boston that I was just on with with more peace in my life than I've ever felt because I've been able to kind of let let this last Bridgett Burrick Brown (13:30.956) Yeah. Jesse Cody (13:47.035) massive chunk of what my life has been and the trauma that's come with it. I've been able to really open up about it in a way, let it go. Bridgett Burrick Brown (13:57.002) Yeah, I love that. So are you choosing to share this part now because you know that by sharing your story, it might give other people the courage to just at least acknowledge their story and get help? Yeah. Jesse Cody (14:14.582) 100%. You know, I made this choice, you know, roughly 10 years ago to change my life through nature and hiking. That has given me so much beauty to my life and given me a purpose. And I made a promise, I've made a promise to Mother Nature 10 years ago that I don't know what it's going to look like, but I'm going to dedicate my life to being a mental health advocate and talk about what nature has meant to me. Bridgett Burrick Brown (14:32.334) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (14:41.539) Yeah. Jesse Cody (14:43.314) And as I've gone along and the steps that I've taken, I really came to realize if I'm going to be the absolute best that I can be at this job, which I don't find it really a job. just find out my life's work in fashion, right? Yeah, right. That, that I have to be all in, I have to be all in. And because, because I realized more and more being all in means more can get accomplished and more help can be given to the world. Sorry. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:01.208) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:06.382) Yeah, you know, I totally agree. I'm learning too. It's like, you can still be all in without sharing every detail. But it's like at least just saying what you had said. It's like, okay, you know, it's important to tell our parents or it's important to, to actually take a good look at that piece that kept coming up for you. Like you, it sounds like it just kept coming up like. Jesse Cody (15:17.674) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (15:31.776) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (15:34.114) I need to deal with that piece if I'm gonna deal with all the rest of it. Tell us, I'm so curious, you said at 40 years old you made this change and I think that's when you started kind of getting in tune with nature. What was that moment for you? Jesse Cody (15:39.716) so curious, you said at four years old, you made this. Jesse Cody (15:49.568) Well, it's always, always going to come back to what I talk about. And that's my family and my friends, right? They, they put on a really incredible 40th birthday party for me. And, you know, certainly I've had many, many, many, many moments prior to that, that I'm around a lot of these people, but there was something just really significant about this, this day and being around 50 plus people that really cared about me, you know, and, had a lot of love for me. And I, I, I really just remember thinking to myself, wow, man, like how can someone who has so much good in their life constantly think about taking their life? And then I kind of took that a little step further and thought to myself, do you really want the next time that these people all gather, do you really want it to be your funeral? I just told myself, you really need to think about this because I think you owe it to these people to try to... find something where maybe you can take a little bit of charge of your life. And so I came out of that party really like, all right, man, like, I think it's time for you to at least try because your goals have been to end your life, man. you probably need to talk to somebody about this and ask for help and figure out if there's actually a possibility of maybe navigating through some of this darkness that you've just had in your life, your whole life. Bridgett Burrick Brown (16:50.222) Mmm. Jesse Cody (17:16.56) and so off that party, I just started doing research. Like how can I, how can I reset my life? You know, I knew I had to get out of that restaurant industry. Something in my gut was telling me I had to get away. Like I said, you can't do this under the umbrella of the people that care for you. You need to cut, you need to cut the cord and really kind of face these things on your own. And I still didn't, I still wasn't able to find strength to. Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:16.662) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:29.838) Mmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:37.774) Mm. Jesse Cody (17:45.386) go into therapy or to open up to my parents. I still was wrestling with that. But while I was doing this research, the book by Bill Bryson, A Walk in the Woods kind of came into my life. And it's about hiking the Appalachian Trail, Georgia to Maine. And so I picked this book up and I just, I was just looking for some inspiration and friends said, is a really cool book. There's a lot of inspiration in this. wasn't thinking anything about nature. My, my Bridgett Burrick Brown (17:57.176) Mm. Mm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:11.222) Yeah, this is cool. Jesse Cody (18:13.314) Yeah, my jungles were nightclubs and bars. Who was I to say, we're gonna go hiking. There wasn't a reality to that, honestly. But Bryson talks about discovering the Appalachian Trail very early on in the book. And at that time in his life, he had a lot of great things in his life. He was professor at Dartmouth. He had already been a very established writer, beautiful family and beyond. when he... Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:16.064) Yeah, you jungle. Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:23.118) Hmm. Jesse Cody (18:40.168) started understanding about the Appalachian Trail, he thought to himself, for all the good that's in my life, I still have some things that I feel I have to have answers to, I'm still searching for. And maybe a long walk would help me help me find those answers. And it's honestly, I don't think I ever say that without kind of getting emotional about it. But it just struck me in the same way that that love at my birthday party struck me. I said, maybe I need a long walk. Bridgett Burrick Brown (18:53.614) I love that. Jesse Cody (19:07.774) And so I kind of got hooked on this idea of the Appalachian Trail and I started doing research and then I was like, how the, how am going to tell people that I'm quitting my career to that? I'm going to go down to Georgia and to Maine. And so I sat with my family and I said, you know, I feel like, I feel like I've lost myself a bit and I don't feel like I have much of a calling and I Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:07.95) Ugh. Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:15.758) Going from nightlife to we're going to hike this mountain. Jesse Cody (19:35.22) My life just seems really status quo and it doesn't sit well with me and I think I need to go find myself. And they were reluctant to the whole thing at first for sure, but then they all started doing their own research and my dad got really hooked on it. He's like, this is amazing. You're really gonna go walk from Georgia to Maine? And I said, I am, I am. And it was roughly four months later with my life in a backpack that I stepped off of Springer Mountain and started my journey to Maine. Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:42.712) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (19:51.118) Let's go. Jesse Cody (20:04.438) 2200 miles of hiking. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:04.854) And would you say that first step, I guess the research was, that first step was the beginning of your true healing journey? Jesse Cody (20:13.878) Mm. 100%. I had, I had felt things leading into it, but most definitely as I started walking that I had, I don't even know if I've ever felt in my life. felt passion. felt drive. I felt focused. I felt the need for something that I honestly, a hundred percent believed that was going to change my life for the better. I wasn't like, maybe I wasn't like, Hey, you could quit this in a week. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:17.646) Hmm. Jesse Cody (20:44.864) Hey, like if this doesn't work, what's plan B? I honestly took the first steps thinking this is gonna change your life in ways that you can't even imagine yet. I also knew it was gonna be the most challenging thing I've ever done in my life. Because again, of course, I mean, listen, the first time I ever slept in a tent was night one on the Appalachian Trail. Like I went into this with no experience and people out there are like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:52.451) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (20:59.542) And was it? Bridgett Burrick Brown (21:07.982) Amazing. Jesse Cody (21:12.714) True hikers are like, this poor guy is going to be down in a week. Yeah. But. Well, you there's so many people out there attempting it that you start kind of grouping up with people and you build your build your tramly. It's called the trail family and it's your community. And I mean, honestly, that that part of hiking I didn't even think of going into it. You know, I was out there really seeking to make changes for myself to face things that I needed to face. Bridgett Burrick Brown (21:16.079) You totally. Did you do ever it the whole thing by yourself? Bridgett Burrick Brown (21:26.455) Cool. Jesse Cody (21:42.302) And I didn't even realize that there were going to be so many incredible people that I met along the way, the way that honestly had their own mental health journeys that they were on and that we needed each other. And, really that just, that, that, that magnified how beautiful it was in so many, so many ways. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:01.186) Are you still friends with some of them? Jesse Cody (22:03.298) one of them is right now one that I met very early on the Appalachian Trail 10 years ago. She's out on the Pacific Crest Trail and literally text me sneaker questions yesterday. Yeah, she's like my little sister. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:13.87) I love that. What would you say the biggest reflection was that you had out there? Jesse Cody (22:23.887) that I- that- This is great that I actually could persevere and that was something that I thought I could never do that if there was ever any type of Mountain in my way and I'm talking before hiking that I was running from it that I was curling up in a dark corner and I was scared to face the mountain in myself and Every single day on the Appalachian Trail you face several mountains and you got to get out of them get of them Yeah, and so persevering Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:33.05) Aww. Bridgett Burrick Brown (22:48.98) Mm-hmm. That's really cool, Jesse. Do you, there's such a, yeah, I love that. Do you feel now with all your hiking experience that I wanna talk about, that there's something so powerful about doing something so physically challenging, so something so mentally challenging? Jesse Cody (23:02.859) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (23:15.798) So yeah, you got to be a bit of a masochist to take on these long tracks for sure. And it's funny, it's like, a lot of people, I'll tell people what I do or what I've accomplished, people are crazy. And I go, yeah, ironic for a mental health advocate, isn't it? So there's like this, like, you got it's almost like that, like my therapist says the best therapists are the ones who have been through it. you know, yeah. And so that physical Bridgett Burrick Brown (23:38.72) Yeah, 100%. We teach what we go through, you know. Jesse Cody (23:44.594) Exactly. that physical, what that does for me physically out there. Man, I love it. Like I, I moved to the mountains because I need it literally every day. Like, like I need to do my work all day long. And then I just throw my shoes on and I run up a mountain and I feel that pain. And it's just like, it's a release. It's my release. It's, it's a major part of my therapy. It's how I process. If I've got something going on, I know what I need to do to kind of work through that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (23:56.504) That's so cool. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:06.2) to release. Jesse Cody (24:14.262) position myself better to face it. Bridgett Burrick Brown (24:17.184) Yeah, maybe a long walk would help. I love that. I'm going to write that somewhere. It's so cool. Okay, so you talk about finding resilience through vulnerability. What does that mean to you? And how is that like showing up in your healing journey, I would say? Jesse Cody (24:21.45) Maybe a long walk would help. Jesse Cody (24:28.278) Okay. Jesse Cody (24:41.706) You know, everything has felt like a weight to me through this process. you know, I started with hiking and I still, it took me, it took me a year and a half after finishing the Appalachian trail to say out loud that I was suicidal. It took me that, that time long to talk to my family about the way that I took on this track. And I've come to realize that those steps that I take, whether the trail ones are the ones that I'm doing. in life, out off a trail there, releases for me. And I need, I need releases because it helps me. Yeah. Let it out. It helps me grow. It helps me learn. It helps me better understand who I am and what I'm capable of doing. It gives me the ability to think when I moved to Santa Fe, New Mexico, I literally bought an old 93 camper van. I told my family, I'm going to Santa Fe. Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:19.022) Let it Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:26.478) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (25:35.254) And I think I'm going to stay there and they're like, why do you love Santa Fe so much? I'm like, I don't know. I have never been there, but I'm going to take this leap. And so for me, like I'm constantly leaping and it'll always work, but I'm okay with that because there's such an incredible lesson from it. And I'm always kind of trying to lift a weight off of me. so opening up for me, man, it's just, it's given me this ability to have, like I said, this freedom that I. Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:43.49) That's cool. Bridgett Burrick Brown (25:48.93) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:02.478) Mmm. Jesse Cody (26:03.784) I never thought was possible. I'd never even had these thoughts of like, what would it take to find freedom? Like I could never even get that far. I could never see that in myself. And so when you find something like that, right? Like you just want to better yourself. say often, man, we like, we start learning in the womb. We learn even more when we come out and we, we don't stop learning until we have moved on. And if anybody thinks they know it all, they're missing out because we can learn so much more about the world and ourselves. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:10.71) Yep. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:22.252) Yep. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:29.206) Yeah. Jesse Cody (26:33.393) if we're open to the world and ourselves. Bridgett Burrick Brown (26:36.446) Yeah, and I think it's such a proven point with what you said and just the data out there that like, when you've been through trauma, little or big, getting it out, whether it's verbally or physically, it's so important. So it doesn't get stored in our bodies. It doesn't get stored in our our brain. And you know, it's like you said, like that weight, weighting us down. Yeah. Jesse Cody (26:40.511) and Jesse Cody (26:57.334) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (27:05.111) So a lot of people just say like, get outside, get outside, it'll help. But I feel like that can just sound like one of those like self care things that people kind of throw around, right? What have you personally experienced or seen other people go through that really kind of backs nature supporting our mental health? Jesse Cody (27:10.112) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (27:18.336) Yep. Jesse Cody (27:31.83) I think the biggest thing that comes out of that, and it's a common theme with people when I talk to them about nature and how they've seen benefits from it is that we're all living in our own personal chaos at all times, right? Like we're all affected by the world around us and that can be big picture, whether it's political landscape, whether it's the environment, whether it's just friction amongst people, but it can be your own stuff, right? can be, it certainly can be work. It could be home life. could be past trauma not addressed. There's so much stuff there that we're constantly in a state of chaos that a lot of people don't even realize. Again, they just think that's the norm and that this is the way it is and that my goals should be this regardless of where I am here. when I talk to people and I'm so glad you started off with this, it's when people say to me, man, I get it. When I go outside, I feel so much better. Bridgett Burrick Brown (28:04.876) Internal. Jesse Cody (28:29.684) Yeah, but why? I like to ask that question. What is it? And how in what way do you feel better? And what are you comparing it to? Right. And, when people are talking about it, it's always like, they're talking about our work is just, you know, I'm working more than I should be working or like, you know, house payments, it's all things always come up. It's part of their chaos. And so what I say is when you, when you get into nature and you really pay attention, right. Whether you're out for hike or bike ride. Bridgett Burrick Brown (28:31.758) Yeah. cool. Bridgett Burrick Brown (28:57.538) Hmm. Jesse Cody (28:59.284) Some people just need to take a blanket and go to a field and lay a lie down right in journal. I say, if you're really listening to what's going on in your mind compared to how your mind's reacting to the things around you that you're talking about within that chaos of yours, what's that? What's that dialect like? Because usually in chaos, we're just right. It's almost like this inner turmoil, right? Whatever we're Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're not right. Right. Bridgett Burrick Brown (29:03.138) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (29:22.47) Well, we're ignoring everything. We're not being present at all. We're like, let me just ignore that. Ignore that. Ignore that. Yeah. Let me add more chaos in so we don't have to talk. We don't have to think about any of the chaos. Jesse Cody (29:29.15) And we're frustrated and we've got road rage and yeah, right. Yeah, you see someone walking down the street with a smile on your face and you're like, what's wrong with that weirdo? Like everything's just like, er, right. But when you're out, when you're out and you're away from that and you're away from the sounds of the cities and, you get a little bit of a different sound birds, the wind, I always say, listen to the wind. The wind is like to me, the most beautiful part of nature because there's There's different sounds to win. It's depending on what it's blowing through. And I noticed, I really, I challenge people to do this, is the inner dialogue in my head changes. It turns from the frustration that you can deal with and almost an inner argument to this more of a calming conversation. Now the conversation still might be challenging, but it's more of a debate than it is a full out argument. And a lot of times if you're really focusing on that and you're trying to find a place to process whatever you're going through, there's results. You come out of that feeling like, man, I succeeded something there, something that I've been challenged by for a while now. I actually paid attention. And while I was doing that, I was taking in the smells and I was listening to this, like these sounds and like those birds having a conversation and everything around me. I could see changes my inner dialogue to. Bridgett Burrick Brown (30:26.35) Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (30:34.296) Yeah. Jesse Cody (30:55.414) to what I'm dealing with and has helped me take steps, at least positive steps, to kind of have some results from whatever that was. Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:03.936) It sounds like the two biggest things you get is presence and gratitude. Jesse Cody (31:10.974) Mm, massively, massively. Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:12.526) Yeah. They say when you're really anxious to just tap into your senses. What do I smell? What do I feel? You know, the wind, like you said. What do I see? That's really cool. Do you feel like since you've been spending so much time in nature, you've been more in tune with your intuition? You mentioned a little bit ago about, hey, I'm moving to Santa Fe. Jesse Cody (31:23.36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (31:39.05) Yeah. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:39.638) Yeah, like I'm moving to Santa Fe. I don't really know why, but I'm doing it. Do feel like you are just so in tune with your intuition? Jesse Cody (31:46.548) Yeah, a hundred percent. I know what I need. know like, I know what I want my life to look like, right? Like I have dreams of how it, you know, I talk often. I just want to be in a rocking chair on my home in the high desert when I'm old. Like, yeah, I mean, a hundred percent I'm locked in and like how I live. like my, and that in itself is still a challenge. be honest. Like talking about where I came from and like my friends back in Boston and like all these things, like sometimes you're almost like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (31:48.61) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:01.166) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:08.099) Yeah. Jesse Cody (32:16.534) your first reaction is like, I don't even know if I want to tell my friends this, they're gonna think I'm where they're gonna judge. And it's like, you got to get past that stuff. They don't like they might give you a little bit of a little bit of crap. But it's all in fun. Right? I mean, I would. They're my friends. And we're Boston guys. And like, you know, they're like, you know, do you even watch the Patriots anymore? I do. I do. Or you Yeah, what's your what's really on now? Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:28.578) Yeah, totally, because they're your friends. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:33.708) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (32:37.954) Or are you hiking? Have you gotten any of your friends in on the hiking? Yeah. Jesse Cody (32:45.526) Mm hmm. Not like not the long tracks, but I've certainly when I've gone back to Massachusetts, I've had a couple friends where we've gone up to New Hampshire and climbed, you know, a 4000 footer. I've had friends that have come out to visit me. I have friends who still are very adamant about coming out to visit me. And a lot of those conversations will say, man, I need some peace and quiet in my life. And I imagine if I come hang out with you, you'll show me where that's where that's at. And I'm like, just get here. I gotcha. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (33:01.774) Yeah Bridgett Burrick Brown (33:12.086) Yeah, that's so cool. Tell us about your hikes that you do because you lead hikes, right? Jesse Cody (33:15.126) Absolutely. I don't lead hikes. Most of my hiking is to is to usually raise money for my nonprofit, but also supporting programs that that we are in line with in the country. So again, I'm doing things and I'm very, very prominent on on social media and doing a lot of discussing during my hikes, a lot of lives, a lot of rails, and just really kept people people. Bridgett Burrick Brown (33:42.702) Cool. Jesse Cody (33:43.936) keeping people engaged in what I'm doing and when I'm out there, I love, I would say I'm an amateur photographer, so I love taking pictures. But over the last 10 years now, I've hiked just over 16,000 miles throughout the United States. I started with the Appalachian Trail. also hiked the Pacific Crest Trail and the Continental Divide Trail, which is the three biggest trails in America. And when you hike the three of them, you're a triple crowner of through hiking in the United States. I'm very... Bridgett Burrick Brown (34:06.315) circle. Jesse Cody (34:12.288) humbled by the fact that I have that because it took a lot of walking and a lot of challenge and it taught me a lot. But I'm proud of it for sure. yeah, my hiking is always have purpose and most of all, you know, it's a lot of talking about what nature has meant to me and certainly talking about my mental health struggles and how these two things that come together and where it's kind of taken me to a top of a mountain that I'm really proud of. Bridgett Burrick Brown (34:19.138) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (34:36.962) That's really cool. Tell us more about your nonprofit. Jesse Cody (34:40.662) So hike the good hike. Yeah, I started this just over just over two and a half years ago. Started here in New Mexico. And essentially what we do is we we look to help people who want to take on a journey in nature right now. It's hiking. We want to expand that to anybody mountain biking, running, kayaking, whatever people want to do. But if if someone is on their own mental health journey and they're looking to take on a trek and that trek is difficult because one, you've got to take time away from work to Bridgett Burrick Brown (35:00.003) Mmm. Jesse Cody (35:10.454) the gear that comes with it is extremely expensive. We're about to launch a sponsorship program where we will essentially supply all their gear and to give them a stipend for travel. Yeah, yeah. So you're talking for a hiker, we're talking about $4,000 in gear if they're going to take on one of the long trails. In return for that, we want to know about their mental health journey and they're going to tell their story. Bridgett Burrick Brown (35:20.258) Very cool. Jesse Cody (35:35.806) while they're hike through our platform, Hike the Good Hike. So whether it's writing, video, social media, they're sharing what they're seeing, how the changes they're seeing, what they were seeking and being honest. Maybe sometimes people say I'm still challenging with this, but I've learned this. So again, our platform ultimately is a storytelling platform where we're taking on people who want to use nature to better their mental health. But also on top of that, want to tell the story of Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:00.61) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (36:03.06) what that's meant to them and where they started and where it's taken them and where they're to kind of be that platform for them to open up about their struggles. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:11.266) That's beautiful. I love that you're doing that. That's so cool. I talk a lot about how, you know, I do a lot of body image work. So we talk a lot about how our bodies are nature and we forget about that. We're so busy, you know, restricting and criticizing and pushing them. And it's like, I almost think we start living like outside of ourselves. And I think we can do that whether we're critiquing. Jesse Cody (36:19.893) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (36:29.622) and criticizing and pushing them. Hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (36:38.326) our body image or its mental health issues. you know, it's like getting back into that flow of yourself and your body, but also just with nature. So it's so cool. Like every time I talk to people, how much like overlay there is really. It's like you can be like talking about something so differently, but it's really just it's like coming home to yourself and coming home to, you know, Mother Nature. And I don't know. So beautiful. Jesse Cody (36:41.268) Mm-hmm Jesse Cody (36:54.422) Mmm. Jesse Cody (37:05.974) Yeah, it's all connected. It's all connected. Everything is connected. And when you talk about nature, we're so connected to nature, right? I don't think people understand when their feet are hitting the ground or they're lying in grass that like, that stuff around you is connecting to you. Like it's part of you. Bridgett Burrick Brown (37:08.522) Mm-hmm, we're all connected. Yes. Bridgett Burrick Brown (37:23.274) Yeah, that's actually one of my questions for you. Like for the people that don't have access to a hike or they can't take off a lot of time of work, like what are some easy ways that they can just get some of that grounding or, you know, tidbits of nature into their life? Jesse Cody (37:34.312) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (37:41.206) Absolutely. mean, most people have parks, most people have ponds or lakes. Some have the ocean. And you know, some are lucky to have nature within 3040 minutes of them. There's there's always access to something get listen, I was just in Cambridge, it's an incredibly busy, busy city. But fresh pond is right in the middle of there. It's two and a half miles around the pond. And there's beautiful fields and there's trees. And it's, it's pretty wild. I noticed this the other day when I was there that like, I just went for a walk. And I was like, going be in the city. So you're going to hear all these, cars, but nature, I don't know, man, it's got this magic ability. It's like, even though the roads are right there, yeah, to drown it out. And so I, I, I stress this to people. I always say, I listen, what I've done and the places that I've been and seen, it's not about that. Right? Like my day hikes that I have hikes that I'll go out for an hour and a half. And those are just as important to me and my process as Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:17.272) to drown it out. Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:30.723) Yeah. Jesse Cody (38:39.936) hiking for four months. And so I tell people, find the place, find a place, find a conservation. what they're, it's, everybody has it somewhere close to them. And then again, to really make it about something that you're seeking mentally, just again, tune in to those surroundings around you, not the ones outside the parks, not the one mile two down. Yep. Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:41.816) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (38:50.253) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (39:01.144) huh. Like be present here. Don't get bothered by the noise out there. That's really cool. Jesse Cody (39:06.494) Yeah, we can shut it down. mean, look at people, people meditate in the city and they have the ability to, you know, to shut everything out. It's in a very, it's a very similar way. All I'm saying is, but tune into what's going on in here and have that conversation and the surroundings of nature really have this incredible ability to quiet everything around you. Bridgett Burrick Brown (39:26.222) Do you think there's something about nature that, something about silence? Because I would think on a lot of these hikes, unless you're going with your friends, it's like, you're silent. You're with yourself. Jesse Cody (39:39.03) I've hiked 500 miles where I've seen less than 10 people. Solitude is incredibly important to me. Every day when I'm out running up mountains and stuff, I need it because I'm looking for conversations with myself. It's therapy. It is part of my therapy. It's part of my process. So solitude and being in nature, again, really Bridgett Burrick Brown (39:44.664) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (40:06.282) gives me the ability to find the best place for me to kind of have that interaction that I need with myself and then to kind of find some resolve. It's not like it's, and again, it doesn't always, sometimes I'll like, if I'm frustrated with somebody, whether it's something that would work or something, and I feel like if I had talked to that person in the moment, the conversation might not be great. But if I go have that conversation in a way out when I'm out in the mountain and I just envisioned the conversation, I find ways to make sure that when I do have that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:25.975) Yep. Jesse Cody (40:34.686) actual conversation in real life, that it's, it's, again, it's, it's a narrative where we're, we're engaging in disgusting instead of clashing. And so that solitude is really important. Yeah. And again, even with myself, right? Yeah. Like you said, like if I'm having problems with myself, it's the same thing. Go solve this dude. And then, then come back to it and work and start working on it. And so that's what I tell people. Solitude is really a beautiful way. can be scary for people. Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:44.694) Yeah, I love that. gives you time to process. Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:53.847) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (40:59.532) Yeah, yeah. Jesse Cody (41:04.534) I understand. It's a hard, it's a leap. Most people are not used to it. Most people are like, I don't like being in my own head space. But I find it to be very necessary. And I think when people, right, you take that chance and you take that leap. Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:15.564) Yeah, me too. Yes, I need a lot of that too. Jesse Cody (41:21.942) 100 % yeah and that's what we're doing. Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:23.714) That's what heals me really. That's really what heals me. If I'm being honest, like my time alone, it's really healing for me. I'm glad you said that. Because sometimes I'm like, I need a lot of quiet time. I need a lot of alone time. just, that is when I process. I talk to myself, like you said. I'll journal. Okay, before we finish up, I just want to talk for a moment just to circle back. Jesse Cody (41:34.314) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jesse Cody (41:44.894) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (41:53.088) on what I mentioned in the beginning, men's mental health. You actually mentioned something in the beginning too about kind of having to like tough it out, you know? So men are often taught to tough it out and not talk about emotions or not bring it up. Like you said, like, why would I bring it up? No one else is bringing it up. We're just playing ball or whatever. What shifts have you seen in how men approach mental health? Jesse Cody (41:54.954) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (42:02.251) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (42:19.912) as you've been sort of submerged in this work and what do you hope to see more of? Jesse Cody (42:25.846) I've seen a real shift where men, men feel comfortable talking to men. That's something that I've had a lot of experience with is that I'll have men that'll come to me and open up about things. And I had one specific situation with a man I did an event in California last year and he asked for some time and he and I had a talk where he opened up and he was very emotional and he said, I've never told anybody this and I've never even told my wife this, you know, and so I like seeing that if men are looking to open up, that they feel a little more comfortable that first step being, I want to talk to another man. That was probably so non-existent. 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, like, I can't even imagine a man thinking to himself, man, I'm going through these things, I'm feeling depressed and thinking I'm going to talk to my buddy from work. Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:06.883) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:10.782) I love that too, yeah. Jesse Cody (43:23.186) I can't even envision, but now I'm seeing that more men, and again, a lot of it's coming at people, whether they hear me speak, they come across me on social media, they hear me on a podcast, men will reach out and wanna talk to me. And I'm so open to it because I'm like, that's such a great first step. I'm like, boy, they don't even know. As a matter of fact, most would think you opening up to your wife or partner, if that's who you were with, that that would be a... Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:23.576) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:38.2) care. Jesse Cody (43:48.594) a bigger step, but it's like the biggest step is opening up to another man. Like that to me is pretty amazing, you know? And so that's a great, that's just for me, like that's, that's a leap that I'm glad to see out of more men. I'm talking to a couple of men here in Santa Fe. We're meeting next week about starting a men's group here in the city. And we're three guys that are, you know, we've got scruff, we've got, we all look like, you know, and we're almost like making it like, Bridgett Burrick Brown (43:53.087) Interesting. Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:07.182) Cool. Love it. Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:12.131) Love it. Jesse Cody (44:16.252) should our logo should be just three guys of cowboy hats and it's like, but who are sensitive and love to talk about this stuff. Again, things you never would see before, right? And so what I would like to see is for men to, in general, I just want to see more empathy in this world. But specifically, think, you know, I think there are a lot of, how do I put this? There are, I would just imagine there when men Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:20.152) Yeah. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:25.88) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:34.926) Hmm. Jesse Cody (44:45.99) have children and they might have sons, that there is still a little bit of that, you know, to do this, you've got to be this and like, you've got to show this toughness. And there's nothing wrong with toughness. mean, look, I I climb mountains that you got. Right? Like, don't ever have anybody challenged. Yeah, yeah, there's a bit of that in me. But I also recognize that I'm not going to get anywhere if I'm not empathetic. If I'm not open, if a big thing here is non judgmental, right? Bridgett Burrick Brown (44:57.805) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we all got to like. Bridgett Burrick Brown (45:14.99) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (45:14.996) And that's one of the things that if we go back to me talking about not even realizing it to be this community that would develop around me, there were people there that I that before hiking, I would have scoffed at and I've never even talked at or judged before they even opened their mouth. And now there are just people in my life that I don't even I could never look at people that way. Right. Like everybody has a chance with me. You know, you want to talk, let's talk. And like, I see you as a human. And that's that's where we start. And so I'd love to see more of that. I'd love to see some more empathy and understanding. Bridgett Burrick Brown (45:32.952) Yeah. Jesse Cody (45:43.72) It's a different day and age that people are coming up differently. They're facing challenges that us adults can't even understand. I think that's a really important thing. I love to talk about youth and how they're coming up. Don't be so judgmental of their thoughts and feelings. Like we don't get it. We certainly we may look at and go why, why, why, but we don't understand it. And it's not for us to tell them no, no, no. It's for us to that to kind of communicate and be open to understanding and be empathetic of their experiences and how they see things in this world. Bridgett Burrick Brown (45:56.172) Yeah, same. Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:00.418) We don't. Jesse Cody (46:13.438) And so I think that's important. think we kind of peak in value with these things in our world and specifically in the country. And I'd love to just see that people could have a little more understanding, especially with our youth. I'm for everybody, but yeah, mean, of course, young males, I know what I went through. I know what I struggled with. And yeah. Yeah. And again. Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:32.064) Exactly. That's what I always say. I just, I really know what I went through. I advocate for everybody, but yeah. Are you still teaching or doing any work with like hands-on work with youth? Jesse Cody (46:45.363) No, no hands on work with you yet. We know. Yeah, no, I coached. I coached a long time ago that that's been out of my life. And you know this because of smiley, obviously. Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:47.938) or coaching I meant, not teaching. Bridgett Burrick Brown (46:55.086) Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know if that was still like a part. You're just, you're just love our youth. Jesse Cody (47:02.014) I'm a full on, yeah, I'm a lover of youth. Yeah, I'm a lover of youth. I do. love, I think, know, I, yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:07.374) Yeah, I know. Just want to squeeze them. I think like, you know, I've had my mental health challenges as well, and suicide ideations and all that. And it's like, I think when you've felt those things, it's like you just never want them to feel those things. it's like, it's just, Jesse Cody (47:27.008) Exactly. Exactly. That's where I always go. I'm like, I know how hard it was for me. They I want and it's I know it's unrealistic for everybody, but I just want people, especially young people who come up to have a chance to to feel that they can be who they want to be and they can view the world they want, the way they want to view it, and that they're not going to have people piling it on them and making them feel ashamed for being that way. Because none of us want to fail that way. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:53.708) Yeah. Yeah. No. Jesse Cody (47:54.792) None of us do. And so it starts with us to kind of be leaders for them and to give them the opportunity to feel good about having us around them to be, you know, teachers, as you say, or coaches or, doing it in a way that they feel appreciative of what we're trying to do and how we can help them come up in this world. Bridgett Burrick Brown (47:59.416) Mm-hmm. Bridgett Burrick Brown (48:07.021) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (48:14.798) And I think that sharing and being vulnerable in a safe environment is really the first step. Just being able to say, I feel this or this is bothering me. So thank you so much. Before we end and you tell everybody where they can find you, is there anything else you wanna, do you wanna share or leave any, leave us with? Jesse Cody (48:22.645) Mm. Jesse Cody (48:27.797) Yeah. Jesse Cody (48:33.91) Mm-hmm. Jesse Cody (48:39.272) I just appreciate I mean, one, I appreciate being here for sure. And let me speak to this again, this is the first time that I've, I'm saying out loud that there was significant issues in terms of childhood trauma with me that played a massive role in the rest of my life. And to feel that this is a safe place to say that for the first time, I appreciate you that for that Bridget a lot. And I'm looking forward to it getting out to the world because Bridgett Burrick Brown (48:59.79) Thank you. Jesse Cody (49:06.198) I'm in a men's group online and there are a lot of men out there who have been through what I've been through and there are a lot of men who are seeking help and they don't know where to start. And so when people give me a platform to speak on and let me use my voice and share my story, man, I'm always gonna be grateful for that. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:14.285) Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:24.44) I'm so grateful that you trusted me and thank you so much for sharing everything with us today. Thank you. Okay, tell everybody where they can find you and they can follow along and learn more about your nonprofit. Jesse Cody (49:31.551) Of course, thank you. Jesse Cody (49:35.926) All right. Yeah, for sure. Well, it's pretty easy. It's a hike, the good hike dot. Yep. Hike the good hike.org is our website. And you can find us on social media at hike the good hike. Check us out. And if you had a story to tell, reach out to us. We do a thing called the the portrait project where we ask people to take a picture of themselves in nature and give us a paraker on what mental health and nature means to them. If you want to take part in that, let us know. Bridgett Burrick Brown (49:42.606) Totally. Jesse Cody (50:04.052) We're just trying to spread the word, tell stories and help people. And so come on over and say hi. Bridgett Burrick Brown (50:09.76) I love that. So they can just take a selfie of themselves and then a little story. Jesse Cody (50:14.294) A little story and then if you come to the website, there's a place that shows where you can submit that and we'll get it up on our social media. And we're trying to grow it into something where we have portraits from around the world and more than we can count. Yeah. Bridgett Burrick Brown (50:27.448) So cool. I love that. I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'll see you soon. Jesse Cody (50:32.266) Thank you, Bridget. All right.